I'm not really sure how to start this. I am a fairly big Loki fan and when I say fairly I mean huge and even that is downplaying it. He is my favorite marvel character by far. I loved him when he had hair that looked like a Christmas tree. And had basically no redeeming qualities. He was the Scar esque villain and I loved him basically for that reason. I never needed/wanted a redemption arc for him, but I'm glad we ended up getting one anyway. The only thing I was slightly irked by in Infinity War was that he didn't attempt to trick Thanos. He's the god of mischief and he basically handed himself over. I know he sacrificed himself for his brother, and I don't take issue with that, it's more about how he didn't use an illusion or any of his skills to do so.
Out of all the series, Marvel was dropping this year. Loki was the one I was anticipating the most. I tried really hard to not have high expectations and the trailers gave me some confidence as it looked chaotic and fun, which is all I really want to see from something like this. That and more of Loki himself.
This leads to the reason why I didn't love this show. (at least the first episode)
Mischaracterization:
Definition of mischaracterization
: the act or an instance of characterizing someone or something wrongly
Some examples in other characters:
Jack Sparrow batering away his compass in the 5th movie for rum, when he has never paid for something nor would.
Kaz Brekker being incredibly obvious about his attachment to Inej even though it's said he has the best poker face in the barrel. Where is it though?
I also hate when people try to explain this away with elaborate theories when 9 times out of 10 it's just bad or lazy writing.
This is something that happens fairly often in show/movies/ books especially series. There are always details that are added that contradict others. Sometimes as time goes on characters drift further away from the source material and usually, it's not due to natural growth or a character arc.
I know nothing is perfect and this kind of stuff happens. But in some cases, it's so blatant and wrong that it makes it difficult to watch. Hence my issue with Loki.
He is terribly mischaracterized in this show.
The way he acts and talks feels off to me, and I feel like I can say that with cofidence considering how long I've been following this character.
They've dumbed him down a bit, which is annoying because he's always been fairly clever.
He is the punchline of most scenes which feels incredibly off for his character, he's supposed to always have a trick up his sleeve and I'm all for characters not being in their element and stuff, but it shouldn't change them this much. It worked in Ragnarok but it doesn't here.
They've tried very hard to make you sympathetic towards him which seemed pointless considering how many people liked him already and how much they had to retcon to make it fit their narrative.
like it would be in line with the current timeline Loki, the one we had before he died, but not 2012 Loki who seemed to enjoy making people suffer, and he was defintely not that emotionally vulnerable.
I can't see 2012 Loki crying over his father or his own death. He would be denying it adamently or furious. He's always hidden his emotions, I could see him getting upset about his mother though, so I don't take issue with that at all.
So unlike everyone who got emotional at that part I was just annoyed. His reactions don't line up.
The character development that took years happens in five minutes.
Someone really needs to tell Marvel they can't have their cake and eat it too. If you wanted this to be 2012 timeline Loki you needed to make me believe it was 2012 timeline Loki and not a weird mishmash of Ragnarok/ Tom Hiddleston in a wig/ with Avengers Loki fashion sense. This version of Loki is a mess and even though everyone on Tumblr and beyond seems to love it. I find myself unable to enjoy it.
2012 Loki wasn't sympathetic and regretful. He was angry and wanted to rule over something/ anything. He wanted his birthright and if he didn't get it he was going to demand/ kill for it. Also screw Marvel for reitterating what his father said to him.
I do think Loki was under Thanos control at that time, but I think it just made him more aggressive and heightened already existing emotions. It made him do a few things I don't think he would generally do, but other than that I don't think his actions are excusable because of that fact. He made similar choices in the first Thor movie and while his anger and frustration make sense. He still chose to be the victim and used that as an excuse to play the villain.
He's not innocent and that's okay.
He was not a good person. He betrayed Thor intentionally and wanted to hurt him. I hate when people try to wipe away any of the bad things he did. He is not a child and was fully aware of what he was doing, and the thing I loved was that Thor loved him despite anything he did, that was what made their relationship so fascinating. Loki insisting that he's not worth holding onto and Thor unwilling to let him go. That's the good stuff. You're not supposed to like him and yet through Thor's eyes, you do.
I think this is the first place Marvel went wrong I think they assumed we only started liking Loki after Ragnarok. Where they completely flipped the script and softened all of Loki's edges. That we only like him if he's good.
- He never wanted to be a harsh ruler/ he wanted a statue and plays
- His attempts to kill Thor is just a game to them that they've done since childhood
- He tricks/betrays people because of who he is, it's never meant maliciously
All of Ragnarok is essentially out of character too, but for some reason, I was able to enjoy this one. For one it has some of my favorite looks out of all the movies. The banter between him and Thor is hilarious and mirrors their banter from The Dark World. I tend to think of it as a parody of Thor. He also never strays too far from his original self that it never felt completely off. He's always been more or less the sassy counterpart to Thor. So unlike some characters that drifted widely from the source material *cough* Thor. His changes were much smaller and I didn't take much issue with it.
I'm one of those people who loves this episode. But I think the main thing to keep in mind with Marvel is that they are always developing and changing their characters, for better or for worse. I can't think of hardly any characters who hasn't changed from who they were in the beginning. I think it is because they are learning more and more who the characters really are, which, yes, causes major inconsistencies each time they decide to make a change. Generally I think they are for the best and is like growth for the character designs (I don't know if that's the right word for that), even if it makes no sense they would be this way with the experiences they went through (that we have seen anyway). While I personally love this Loki now and think he works for who he is and was, and everything makes sense to me, I do hope he can be more, well, the god of mischief in the later episodes (cause he is just so much more fun when he is XD).
ReplyDeleteA lot of people did, I think
DeleteI’m in the minority. They are, and I do appreciate that they let their characters grow and evolve but sometimes it’s definitely not for the better. Especially when it comes out of nowhere and doesn’t match up to the characters. But I do appreciate that they try. (I think it is) I guess I just wish it made sense. I wish I could love him, maybe they’ll win me over in the next episode. Yes! (Agreed)
Yeah, that's definitely some characters who are a little off and they don't show why. It's starting to be a thing with Marvel to change characters without a reason, and it's like they hope no one would notice or something. XD Marvel definitely have holes in character development. I'm guessing they wanted to mixed the old Loki with the new Loki and it just came out as a mess. I definitely see your point cause you are right that he is too much of the new Loki than the old Loki. I'm actually expecting him to be more grey and bad than the end version for the obvious reasons and if they don't do that I will be sad (and the trailer would have lied).
DeleteYeah I like when they explain or give some kind of reason. They have and it’s strange, I hope people are noticing. XD
DeleteI mean they have amazing characters and stories. I’m a huge fan I just hate seeing them fall short especially when it’s a favorite. I think that is what they tried to do, I wish it had worked better. Same, I mean there’s still time for them to do some kind of clever twist. I want them to prove me wrong. *fingers crossed*
Aw, I'm sorry that you're not loving the show! *hugs* I haven't seen it (I don't have access to Disney+ right now), but I've heard a few mixed things too. Honestly, I got the same sort of vibe from Bucky in Falcon/Winter Soldier - something about him just seemed off. I still don't know what it was, and maybe it was just me. XD But I hope Loki improves in the next few episodes for you! <3
ReplyDeleteAwe thanks! I was expecting too. (Oh that sucks) I’m glad I’m not the only one with mixed feelings. He was a bit off, not as much as Loki but he definitely was different. I don’t think it was just you. Me too! I’m going to keep watching it, maybe it will win me over.
DeleteI haven't seen Loki yet, which you know, but based on everything you've described and how you've compared it with other characters (that I have seen) I know exactly what you're talking about. Too often there's just something cheap that happens to characters like that. There's a difference between character growth and watering them down to the point where you really only recognize them from their name or catch-phrase. (and pretending that a version of a character in the past is the same as a redeemed version in the future just doesn't work in any timeline unless it's intentional. Especially when the whole point is that you are going to use a version that hasn't had character growth. You can't pretend he has growth when the whole point as to go back to when he didn't) Also, just in general really, Character growth is supposed to be about becoming a better version of themselves, and not becoming something less.
ReplyDeleteIt's frustrating when you can feel how cheap a character has become. Not that you won't still love them forever but it sucks to see what the decline in the writing does to them.
I absolutely love this post, you put a lot random complaints I have into words. Not even for Loki specifically, but it's how it goes for a lot of characters and it really does need to be talked about more.
Also I laughed too much when you said screw Marvel. I stan. You can love something and hate something at the same time and it doesn't even have to be over the same thing. You can love Loki as a character, but hate the weak writing.
I hope this doesn’t ruin it for you when you do watch it. It does feel cheap. I hate catch phrases. It doesn’t seem intentional in the slightest. I hate that they just tacked it on more or less.
DeleteI still hoping it turns a corner, or that they’ll prove me wrong. Thanks! Glad you liked it.
I mean that sincerely with emphasis. So true.
I’ll always love him.
I'll admit, I ADORED episode 1 with all my heart and soul and am so excited tomorrow is Wednesday so I can see episode 2. XD
ReplyDeleteBUT WITH THAT SAID. I 100% see where you're coming from, and had some of the very same thoughts. Though I loved it, I did feel like everything felt a bit too...easy. It's like Marvel really, really wanted 2018 Loki but, ya know, we can't have him because they KILLED HIM, so they were like, "Hey, we'll just let this Loki watch some scenes of his future and have a heart-to-heart with Owen Wilson and BOOM! he'll be 2018 Loki just like that." And just ??? That's not how character arcs work, people.
Marvel really is the wooorst about retconning, and not letting their villains just be VILLAINS. They seem to cater their latter stories to the screaming of fangirls on tumblr and, erm, that's probably nooot the best way to run a major franchise that has spanned generations, ya know? XD I LOVE Loki but I get annoyed when people claim he's not a villain. He WAS a villain and did some atrocious things, and try as they might, you can't erase that.
So yeah, you made some GREAT points and I totally agree with you on what they're doing with his character, even though I still adored the episode. Lol. The quirkiness of it was SO GREAT and I am trash for any and all timey-wimey things, so all that may have covered up any faults it had for me. XD
I’m glad you enjoyed it! I wish I did. I’m still excited for the next episode too, I hope they win me over somehow.
DeleteI get why people loved it too. They did make it seem a bit too easy. Yeah maybe they should have thought that through. XD I mean I guess it worked most people seem to see it as a breakthrough. Excatly!
Yes! It’s like he was beloved as a villain you don’t have to fix him. They do and I really wish they didn’t. Same! I knew what he was, and while I’m glad for the growth it doesn’t fix everything. You can’t and I wish they would address it properly instead of glossing over it.
Thanks! Glad you were able to see both sides. It doesn’t bother me that people like it, I just don’t. I’m hoping I’ll enjoy future episodes. I did appreciate the quirkiness and that their having fun with it. All for timey-wimey stuff generally too. I wish it did for me too. XD
Yes, Yes, and YES.
ReplyDeleteGlad you agree!
DeleteOh dear.
ReplyDeleteOne of my least favorite things is when character personalities are messed with unnecessarily, especially to make someone more "likable." I suffer from it with Thomas in Downton Abbey. He is a jerk, will always be a jerk, and I don't need Julian Fellowes humanizing him as a play for my sympathy, thank you very much. It's the same with the craziness of the prequel series Ponderosa to the classic western series Bonanza. Say what now? Ben Cartwright is teaching his sons pacifism? Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Poor Loki. He was so cool in Thor, The Avengers, and Thor: The Dark World. He was fun in Thor: Ragnarok too, but then again, I just LOVED THAT MOVIE SO MUCH. Oh my gosh, such an amazing movie. BUT, I do think that Loki is it his finest when he's angry and petulant and cares absolutely nothing for anyone. Meaning, when he was a villain. I don't think Disney knows how to make true villains anymore so I'm not super surprised that they're softening him, but it still sounds really disappointing. So sad. I don't blame you for your frustration.
It's so frustrating, and most people seem really quick to accept any change without question. I do think trying to make an unlikable character likable is the most annoying thing they can do. And having a jerk for a character is fine. Their human and add a sort of balance to everything. Both of those sound like annoying and pretty sad attempts at ironing out character flaws. I wish they wouldn't do that.
DeleteExactly, I feel bad for the character. He deserved a good show. He was cool and fun. OMIGOODNESS so did I!!! It's fantastic. I didn't complain about that one, because it was a blast. I do like his rage and uncaring attitude. Yesss we like him as a villian and that's okay. He doesn't need to be a hero. They really don't they always have to make an excuse for them. Honestly I'm not surprised either. I shouldn't have expected much from Disney. Thanks I appreciate that.
I've always had a love/hate relationship with Loki. As a character, he's fascinating, but I don't think his popularity should come at the cost of villainizing his father and therefore, give a pass to all the horror he's done.
ReplyDeleteThe line that made all the fangirls swoon made me furious. "I don't enjoying hurting people." I wasn't sure if this was personal or not, seeing as I just written a post about this a day before, but Tom Hiddleston's acting was on point.
I think a lot of people have. He really is, oh same. That's such a cop out. He made his decisions.
DeleteDefinitely not personal, I didn't read your post till after I wrote this one. It was directed to some posts I had seen on tumblr. But if people like it that's fine, I just took issue with it.
I agree Tom Hiddleston is doing the most, I don't blame anything on him, it's the writing that's bugging me.
Wow you put to words what I was thinking. I was super excited to get a Loki show and then I sit down and I'm just like, that... that didn't seem like Loki. I am hoping that somewhere down the line of the episode we will get more of the trickery I expect to see in a Loki show. It was somewhat enjoyable though, at least bits of it. I like time travel but the TVA is really just dumb, I hate it when stories take something already well established and then introduce an all powerful force later down the line like if they are all that, they should have been introduced earlier, come on.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. Same, I was so happy. It really doesn't.
DeleteI keep waiting for that too. I know right, where is it. I do find a few moments I like in each, but overall I hate what they did. I agree with that, time travel is fine, but the TVA is the worst.
It's bad writing right!
I haven't seen the Loki show because I don't have Disney Plus, but I have heard people praising it effusively. Really interesting to hear your perspective!
ReplyDeleteI hope this doesn't affect your opinion if you do get to watch it. Yeah, a lot of people really like it.
DeleteThanks for reading!
"hair that looks like a Christmas tree" made me laugh because it's so true at least in the first Avengers movie.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, I'm enjoying the show (I mean its Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson) but this Loki is not the same Loki introduced in Thor or the Avengers and it just feels off somehow mainly because many of his skills are MIA. And the fact that he did a total 180 less than 24hrs after he tried to take over the world and destroyed NY was strange for his character since it took him 3 more movies to finally change.
The show is good and I prefer it over TFWS but there are some issues (especially in the later episodes were he becomes the side character to Sylvie)
Glad it made you laugh, yup it was a sight.
DeleteI do love both of them, but even that hasn't been able to get me to enjoy it. Yeah, he's missing his abilities and doesn't even feel like the main character which is strange. Yeah, it's pretty hard to sell that. A lot of people think he's scheming but I don't think he is.
I'm glad your liking it. Yeah TFWS wasn't as good as I wanted it to be either. (That has happened, she really took over)
Skye,
ReplyDeleteHaaaaaaaaaaa Christmas tree hair. Well said. PREACH the truth, I agree with you. The bigger the character and the film, the more the writers tend to mess with the source in order to achieve a wow factor or a new sympathetic storyline etc. in the end they turn a perfect steak into mincemeat and nobody likes mincemeat it’s bland and mushy. P.S. you’re a good writer love your posts keep up the good work k bye
XD Glad you like that description! Thank you. I try too. It's nice to get that validation. They do, and it's so frustrating. Like don't mess with it, you were doing fine. Oh that's such a perfect description, that's exactly what they did. I don't have the palate for it.
DeleteThank you so much!!